Imposter Syndrome in Agency Founders

If you explained to your staff that you had imposter syndrome as an agency founder, they’d think you were mad. It’s more common than you think, particularly when you get to the top. If you were applying for your role as if it were a normal job, I doubt you’d even give yourself the role compared to other agency CEOs who have years and years of experience.

In this podcast, my business partner and I explain our experiences with imposter syndrome while running NOVOS. Surprisingly, our most significant experiences came at very different stages of the agency.

I hope you enjoy listening; the full transcript is below if you’d prefer to read it.

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Sam Hurley: Hello, welcome to another episode of the Agency Founders Podcast with me, Sam Hurley, and Antonio Wedral. Today, we're talking about imposter syndrome. This wasn't going to be my first question, but after mentioning this to a member of our team, it was his first question. So I will ask you, is imposter syndrome a thing?

Is it real?

Antonio Wedral: Imposter syndrome, I believe, is real. The feeling is undoubtedly genuine, though whether the natural phenomenon is different. It's a complex answer, but essentially, people often feel they're in a position they shouldn't be, for various reasons.

This feeling's validity depends on the situation. For instance, if I were suddenly sworn in as President of the United States, it would be [00:01:00] fairly accurate to think, "Yes, this feeling is real because I shouldn't be in this position." It's about distinguishing between the feeling and the factual reality. When it comes to someone of a certain age managing a few people, that's more debatable.

People might feel they don't belong in a role, but if they have the necessary background and experience, they may be ideally suited for it. If that makes sense, that's how I'd answer that question.

Sam Hurley: Yeah, I think it's a natural phenomenon, but I believe it's been exaggerated and labelled as something more significant than it is. In essence, it's simply a loss of confidence or a lack of confidence after perceiving something as more significant than it is. As you mentioned, like becoming President of the United States—you'd experience imposter syndrome because you know it's too big a role. In a work scenario, particularly in agencies, it often happens when changing roles, such as becoming the head of the department or a director for the first time.

You see that label or title [00:02:00], and suddenly, there's pressure, which leads to a lack of confidence. This then gets labelled as imposter syndrome. Have I ever felt it? Yeah, I have—definitely. The instance I remember most vividly was when I first became a director.

I think it's super common in agencies. When you start, you're doing all the disciplines. For instance, when we started, my role was essentially SEO exec, then Senior SEO manager, then head of SEO. You're doing all of that while also handling operations, marketing, et cetera.

As you build the team, they gradually take over the SEO roles. At one point, I was the SEO manager, and then we hired Dan. I then essentially became a head of SEO, though these weren't formalized roles or job titles—they were more about the tasks you're doing day-to-day.

So I was head of SEO, and Dan was the SEO manager. As that progressed, it reached a point—I think it was early 2021—when everything was handed over. Dan was leading direct delivery, and suddenly, I was a director. I needed to figure out what to do day-to-day as a director.

I thought, "What the hell does a director do?" And that's where imposter syndrome kicked in. Again, this is overthinking it. But before I go into the next section, let me ask: have you ever experienced it?

Antonio Wedral: I experienced imposter syndrome when we first started, especially since I was only 23 years old. I'd find myself on sales calls, speaking to potential clients and trying to convince them to spend money with us. It was challenging. I felt it strongly then, but I haven't experienced it much since because I dealt with it early. It makes sense that I approached it from an age perspective; I felt far too inexperienced and young to run an agency and claim we could outperform others who had been in business for 15 to 20 years.

That's how I felt for a while. But then I realized the quality of our work was so high. I asked myself, "Why am I feeling this way?" I managed that imposter syndrome quite well and pushed it to the side.

Sam Hurley: Yeah. Cause I think I, I knew you were going to say that because I think when we first started the agency, I think you kept.

I'm not referencing imposter syndrome, but I'm asking. It's just, yeah. I don't even know what questions you're asking, but do you ever get worried or like, how do you get past the whole, just no, that we're doing a good job type thing? I think so. I've got notes because we've just done this recently with a member of our team. A few members of our team were struggling with confidence.

And, like, when you outline, if you think what confidence is, how would you describe confidence? I've got notes because I've dug into this with a team member.

Antonio Wedral: To me, confidence is trust in your ability and your mind to be able to do certain things. [00:05:00] That's to me what confidence is.

I'm confident in doing a sales pitch because I trust myself to be my best self. I trust my preparation in advance of it. If that makes sense, it's like a trust in yourself.

Sam Hurley: So what are you trusting?

Antonio Wedral: Myself.

Sam Hurley: And what is it about yourself? Is it your skill? Or your experience?

Antonio Wedral: A combination of everything.

I trust my skills, experience, and form of preparation. Like everything, I trust it like it's a process. I trust the process, and the process is me.

Sam Hurley: Yeah, So that word was a vital process. It's pretty. I find it all fascinating, like defining confidence, and that then leads on to, like, all right. So this is essentially what imposter syndrome is, and I was thinking about how I tackled it. So then confidence is the expectation of a positive outcome, which is essentially what you were talking about.

And it's whether you have confidence in the process or confidence in the outcome, [00:06:00] which are obviously two different elements, which are very interesting. And then confidence isn't necessarily personality. A personality trait is an assessment of a situation that sparks motivation. If you have confidence, you're motivated to put in the effort to invest the time and resources and persist in reaching the goal.

Antonio Wedral: Nice.

Sam Hurley: So then I was thinking back to why I got that impasse imposter syndrome when I became a director, I think it is because you lose that foundational level of confidence. So I guess in an example, when we set up the agency, I had confidence in my discipline of SEO, so I'd like loads of case studies to have worked in-house.

So, all of my confidence came from my knowledge of SEO. So, I didn't have any of the post-syndrome debt when we first started. Again, as I said, it's super common in agencies to lose your discipline when you become a director. Even when you're a head of the department, it's like you could be leading the SEO [00:07:00] team or whatever discipline you become a head of the department.

And suddenly, you're not doing SEO on your day-to-day discipline. So then that's where you lose your confidence. Then, when I became director, it's just like you lose all of that foundational level of what. Is it what makes it good at doing this job? That's when I started to define what a director is, which again is a blog on the website, which you can read.

And then, from there, I think I just did a shitload of reading. So I would do two hours of podcasts a day, just like learning about general leadership. And that side of things, like directors, is typically tied to leadership. That's why you never did any work. Yeah, this is on my dog walks in the evening.

That helps to build that foundational level of confidence. After that, focus on strengths. So it's like not focusing too much on your weaknesses and more on your strengths. It's a similar task we've been doing with members of our team [00:08:00] recently to try and rebuild confidence.

Yeah.

Antonio Wedral: It's interesting, yeah. I think I know what you mean. I've never really thought about it in that way, our experience when we set up the business, because I believe, in my head, it was like, I don't have confidence in myself to run a company because I've never done it before as soon as I got the confidence to run a business.

Sam Hurley: And I think where we started in particular, because you obviously, you're your age, so you didn't have the SEO. Like depth, I think you have had an SEO job for two years.

Antonio Wedral: No, when you were talking, I was just trying to think. I don't even know if you can define it that way, but I think my confidence was genuinely blind optimism.

It was almost just, this is gonna work. I know it's gonna work. I've got no historical, I've got no yeah I've done SEO, I know the industry, I know how an agency operates, I've been in house, but I don't have enough to be like, oh yeah, 20 years of experience behind me, I know I can do this.

I don't have any business experience. I just remember going into it, it was like, we're going to make this work because I trust in my ability. If I really care about something, I know I'll make it work. That's how that started. Then, we initially started. I remember those conversations, which is when I first started having that [00:09:00] imposter syndrome, where I think I was like, I'm asking for fairly decent retainers.

They can see I've got no wrinkle on my face They're probably gonna wonder how old this kid is How am I going to do this as soon as like sales start coming in and people just saw beyond it They saw actually what we were bringing rather than who? Like my how old I was no one ever asked I think then I was like This is more of a deal in my head.

Like it's not that big of a deal and I think over time and then I we move roles so many times. I don't ever think i'd label it as I had impost syndrome with him. I think I just get to a point where I'm a bit like, I'm not sure, I'm not sure if I'm doing this role right. Let me figure out what I need to do rather than, oh, I don't feel like I should be in this.

I deserve this if that makes sense. I think I had more of what I wanted in this role. I deserve to be in this role. I've worked my I've worked my ass off. I don't know what I'm doing. So, I need to learn everything I can and soak up everything possible to make it work. And there might even be something you create.

Like a great guide on what a director is. It might be me doing my reading. It might be me learning on the job [00:10:00], But I don't think then as time went on with the agency. I had that necessarily impostor syndrome. It's more like I need to figure this out because if that's the only way this agency is going to function, I'll figure out how the hell to do this role.

Sam Hurley: How much of yours was?

Anxiety around your age is a number, not a lack of experience. It's said you were a 34-year-old setting up the agency for the first time in a discipline you never knew about, not your actual age. I think it's just my age.

Antonio Wedral: Yeah, because I remember going into it being like, I've got enough knowledge.

And the industry is changing every day. I've got enough knowledge to know,

Sam Hurley: You've got more knowledge than our clients, and you're pitching to them for sure. Yeah,

Antonio Wedral: exactly. And I think that in my head, I've got SEO experience. Like I helped turn around the magazine. I helped so many brands at the agency.

Like I know what I'm doing. I don't have 10 or 15 years behind me, but I know exactly what I'm doing. So, I know I can do an excellent job for brands. I think that was never a thing in my head. I was like, do I have enough knowledge? For me, it was always just the age. I asked, will people take [00:11:00] me and us seriously?

If I'm talking to them, and that was, and as soon as I got over that fear, because I realised no one cared, I was like, oh, we've got a business here, this could genuinely work. Yeah. And then when we hired, that was like the next time maybe I felt an element of it, but

Sam Hurley: Yeah, I think wrapping it up, I think it would be like, I think it is super common agency side, and I think it's not talked about enough, whether the term is the right term or not, but it's like, Whether you find it as a founder, like the example I gave of moving into a director position, not doing the discipline anymore.

I'm just thinking, wow, I've got a team of 20, 30, 40 people. I don't even know what my day-to-day job is. How am I going to lead them? So where there's that of yourself, if you don't have that issue yourself, somebody in your team is guaranteed to have this scenario, like your SEO manager or discipline manager, whatever you call it, becoming a director.

They will then feel it themselves because, all of a sudden, they're a director. [00:12:00] And especially if we've got people like we had in our company moving out of their discipline and they're moving into operations again, that's super common agency side. Yeah. They're going to have imposter syndrome and a lack of clarity about what their role is and what that foundational knowledge is.

But we have a guide on the website all about what a director should be doing agency-side. So, at least, that'll give some form of foundational knowledge and guide direct directors in which way to go to build their knowledge. Yeah, for sure. And also, just like the last thing, it's remembering that many clients that we've worked with and I've worked with will also experience their imposter syndrome.

Antonio Wedral: So whatever business agency you are, many of those are probably young managing agencies, maybe for the first time. And know that is also possible, and you might see that, and it's working out how the account team supports that person in their role and develops them as well. So, it's just being mindful that anyone within your circle can also experience this.

Sam Hurley: Yep, let's call it a [00:13:00] day.

Antonio Wedral: Let's call it a day, let's do it.

Sam Hurley: Alright, hit subscribe and follow wherever you're listening to us. Bye for me as well.